1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 This is another presentation of tape-recorded UFO Information Service, a non-profit organization. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,000 The speakers are members of the Wigan Flying Saucer Group in England. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:21,000 And first we shall hear Mr. David Weidman, chairman of the group and editor of the Saucer Periodical Uranus. 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:29,000 And he will discuss the general thought of the situation in England together with the activities of the Wigan Flying Saucer Group. 5 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:37,000 Next you will hear Mr. Harold Hill, also a member of the group, and he is a well-known amateur astronomer and lunar observer. 6 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:52,000 This report was submitted to the British Astronomical Association late in July 1954, but this body has not commented upon or published Mr. Hill's report that was no promptly sent to them. 7 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:58,000 This was in strange contrast to their usual friendly acceptance of his contribution. 8 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,000 However, it was featured as a star item in the British press. 9 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:14,000 No matter how one looks at the subject of flying saucers, here at any rate we have at least one record that can be relied upon for accuracy and unbiased objective recording. 10 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:20,000 For Mr. Hill has had over 21 years experience in astronomical observation. 11 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:31,000 This is David Weidman, speaking to you from Wigan, which is in the county of Lancashire in the northwest of England. 12 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:40,000 I am chairman of the Wigan Unisvig Flying Saucer Research Group, a comparator with small organisation, my ordinary standards, 13 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,000 more than some 24 members, and over which are university students. 14 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Our members are more than usually enthusiastic, but going through their free time of being restricted, the rhythm group has not found it possible to publish a board in on its own, much as we would like to do this. 15 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Our group is in an excellent position, and far are receiving up-to-date news of the world's author situations concern. 16 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:16,000 For, as editor of the Wigan U-Rend Saucer magazine, I receive all the other sources I have from other countries. 17 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:24,000 In addition, I have correspondence in practically every country which is known to have an active interest in the source of history. 18 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Our group has been in existence a little over three years, being found in the latter parts of 1953, 19 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:38,000 a year in England, during which interest in the subject opposed its peak. 20 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:47,000 During these past three years, we have, quite nationally it seems, adopted a critical attitude towards the problem, 21 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,000 assuming all the reports dealt with have been innocent until proven guilty so to speak, 22 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:01,000 innocent of being a genuine flying saucer or UFO until no explanation was thought possible. 23 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:12,000 I think I can speak on behalf of all the members when I say that this attitude is vital and necessary if one is to avoid a kaleidoscope of conflicting theories. 24 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:18,000 There is no aspect of the problem which has not been discussed until part of the meeting, 25 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:30,000 and our members, being so well read, would have a just right to claim themselves as fellow members of a logical society if such a society is ever formed. 26 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:41,000 We have our own library, and this contains not only a very wide collection of books, but an amazing number of magazines, leaflets and documents. 27 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Both myself and Mr Harold Hill, whom you will be hearing later on in this tape, are fortunate in owning tape recorders, and these have been made good use of. 28 00:03:53,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Any other programmes which have been broadcast on our sound or television stations have been recorded and played at our meetings for assessment of accuracy and general usefulness in promoting serious interest amongst the general public. 29 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Both Harold Hill and myself have also used our tape recorders to interview witnesses or saucer timings. 30 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:27,000 Several such interviews being in our state library. I have given many lectures in the north west of England, and have met many interesting people while I was engaged. 31 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Most of you in America will remember the 13-year-old boy, Stephen Darnishen, who on the 50th of February 1964 succeeded in taking a photograph of a saucer. 32 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:48,000 This photograph has been used extensively to prove the authenticity of a particular photograph taken by George Darnishen. 33 00:04:48,000 --> 00:05:00,000 I have met the whole Darnish family on several occasions, and Mr Harold Hill has met them once. On the first occasion I met them, which was only six weeks after the incident occurred, 34 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:11,000 I was taken up to the spot where Stephen stood and took his photograph from. I also investigated the hill and valley beyond where the saucer disappeared. 35 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:18,000 We have no reason at all to suspect that the story Stephen told was anything but the truth. 36 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:25,000 We have also met the eight-year-old boy, Stephen's cousin, who was also present at the time the picture was taken. 37 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Despite the fact that the original saucer room has no bulletin or magazine of its own, we have been given quite a bit of publicity in the press. 38 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:45,000 Two newspapers are members of our research group. One question is being asked more than any other among genuine saucer investigators. 39 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:56,000 They ask, are we making any progress towards the ultimate solution of the mystery? It is a question which cannot be answered easily and in a few short sentences. 40 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Which if I was asked to give a straightforward answer, I think I would say quite definitely yes. Progress is being made. 41 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:13,000 I have very often asked the more direct question, have you reached any definite conclusion after what the saucers are? 42 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:21,000 I have been confronted with this question so many times that I have finally had to give it serious consideration. 43 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Trying to evolve a stock answer to this, what I consider to be a very important question. 44 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:38,000 It had to be an answer which took into account all the mass amount of knowledge and evidence I had if you related during my years of study. 45 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:49,000 It took some working out but I am rather proud of the result, particularly if I have yet to hear anyone give a direct answer to this particular question. 46 00:06:49,000 --> 00:07:05,000 Well, you may ask, what is my answer? I contend that there is observational evidence in abundance and of a scientific nature to prove that there are unmodified friends within the atmosphere of our planet 47 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:14,000 who intelligently control the objects which are not the results of engineering processes carried out on this earth. 48 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:24,000 It has become increasingly evident that satisfactory answers to many of the different questions related to problems are not going to be arrived at 49 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:32,000 by consideration of evidence of the hundreds of thousands of ground to air and earth to air sightings alone. 50 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:46,000 I emphasize if we can't arrive at any conclusion at all from this type of evidence alone, it is only that they are extra to ratio in origin and are intelligently controlled. 51 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:58,000 Beyond that, we cannot know. Without having said so in so many words, I think that 90% of genuine investigators fall such an opinion. 52 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:10,000 But we are now at a stage when other questions re-op before us. Questions which must be answered, where do they come from? On the planet? 53 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:17,000 If so, are they from planets in our solar system or from a system beyond? 54 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:35,000 Directly related to the last question is the more technical problem of propulsion. It is true that with the advent of electro-gremitics, speeds, accelerations and deceleration and fantastic renewers attributed to UFOs in thousands of instances 55 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:45,000 seem possible if not probable with earth made crust. If it is not just pure propulsion matters however, which means solving. 56 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:56,000 If it were just a matter of fantastic speeds and the block changes in direction, electro-gremitics would seem not only plausible but a likely answer. 57 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:08,000 But also related to propulsion, we have the invisible and disappearing stars and in the Nansai-Shortle Riddle, related in Donald Keyhole's latest book, 58 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:14,000 and the well-known English secret societies which occurred during Operation Main Race. 59 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:28,000 During some consecutive days, 12 UFOs appeared on military and civil radar screens, always at the same time and going through the same seat of some renewers. 60 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:38,000 On the last three days, the sky was clear, but the only UFOs were fired at only 12,000 feet. 61 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:48,000 It should have been clearly visible. Nothing could be seen either from the ground or from the jet sent up to intercept the unknown. 62 00:09:49,000 --> 00:10:04,000 During a two-hour interview I had with an other assist spokesman in London in April of 1956, I asked for details of the investigation into the incident I had just briefly referred to. 63 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:14,000 I was given an answer, but told that to repeat it would render me liable to prosecution under the official secret tax. 64 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,000 All I can say is that the answer did not satisfy me. 65 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:29,000 Our promised author's information regarding the other incident was despite letters of reminder, this had not been forecoming. 66 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Can electro-organics explain the invisible and disappearing stars? 67 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:54,000 The question of where they may come from seems practically insoluble, unless of course one believes Jardinam's case is a veteran Daniel Fry, Arthur Langeliusi, and a host of other persons who now claim contact with the farmers and those in them. 68 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:00,000 The trouble with these accounts is that hardly anyone agrees with another. 69 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Jardinam's case and his alleged contact form a mystery within a mystery. 70 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Myself and the group have conducted a more thorough investigation into these claims. 71 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:24,000 We are especially well equipped for this, and I am in contact, constant contact, with Mr James Ruevoldy along the O'Donnell in the mountain, 72 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,000 more than whom have supplied a lot of information. 73 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,000 It now seems practically certain that his answers claims are false. 74 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:41,000 We have information which shows beyond doubt that Jardinam's case did not provide flying soldiers have landing, 75 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:47,000 and it is extremely unlikely that he wrote the second book inside the spaceships. 76 00:11:48,000 --> 00:12:02,000 On London Road on September 20th in 1956, a tape recording of Harold Hill and myself criticising him was sent to Dr Nittmar. 77 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:08,000 This tape was forwarded on to Mr Jardinam's case. 78 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:19,000 It is a long time now, and we have heard no reply or acknowledgement, Stephen, of the tape having received Mr Jardinam's case. 79 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:29,000 To be brief, unless some evidence of an extraordinary nature comes available, Jardinam's case is clearly must be regarded as false. 80 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:39,000 And it is to the more ordinary contact claims, if any of them can be labelled ordinary, we have monsters on Little Green Bench. 81 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:47,000 I am at present engaged in trying to sort out a mob story which took place in New Zealand. 82 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:56,000 I expect to take the carving with all the information relating to this affair to be in my house early in the new year. 83 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:02,000 I hope to be granted an opportunity to make another recording, more if possible, 84 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:18,000 while I consider this tape service inaugurated by Dr Nittmar and Mr Herrickson to play a large and most useful part in the exchange of information which delighted the help in the ultimate solution of the enigma. 85 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:25,000 And now, I take great pleasure in introducing my boyfriend, Mr Harold Hill. 86 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:40,000 Thanks, David. As a request of you for information service, I am giving here a detailed account of all the circumstances attending the observation of a truly remarkable sculpture, none of them, 87 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:54,000 witnessed by myself and my wife on Thursday evening, July 8th, 1954, from 9.30pm to 9.55pm, British summer time. 88 00:13:54,000 --> 00:14:03,000 Earlier in the day, I had been making spectroscopic observations of the sun, and I had left the shuttle of the observatory, Dome Orton. 89 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:16,000 Well, I went out at about 9.25 and closed it, but before returning to the house, I scanned the beautifully clear sky, routine sweep kind of thing, 90 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,000 but the sky was at what showing signs of filling in with clouds from the southwest. 91 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Well, quite suddenly, I detected at an altitude of about 55 degrees in the southern sky, a bright, apparently stationary, star-like object resembling the planet Venus. 92 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:48,000 It was, however, considerably brighter than even the lustrous Venus that would appear on so bright a sky, and anywhere the planet would load down in the sunset. 93 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Immediately, thoughts of a supernova or new star flashed into my mind, and I rushed to the house to call my wife and get the binoculars. 94 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:13,000 She immediately confirmed the object, and in the glasses, 8x30, there was a strange star, as we thought it was then, that expanded into a small, bright metallic-losing globe, 95 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:26,000 that the clouds were now coming up and crossing the region, and they were very troublesome, and the object, then finally recovered, was seen to have shifted its position, and was somewhat higher in the sky. 96 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Well, meanwhile, with a feverish excitement, I'd opened up the observatory, and had to bring the 12-inch reflecting telescope to bear. 97 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:56,000 But a smaller, three-inch refractor, which I have mounted on the larger instrument for solar observation, found the cradle of the English-type equatorial, and with wild abandon, I simply tore the three-inch from its support, in my anxiety to get the grips of the 12-inch. 98 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:05,000 The wife of the star was readily visible in the finder, which I might explain as an auxiliary telescope attached to the main instrument. 99 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:21,000 The much smaller field of the high-power IP could not be trained on the precise spot in the sky, and to avoid wasting valuable time, I had to resort to a much lower power, but having a wide field. 100 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:34,000 For those interested, I might say that the magnifying power of this IP is with 50 diameters, and the extent of the field was 35 minutes, or rather more than the apparent diameter of the moon. 101 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Well, the object, it was picked up almost once, and what was seen was as amazing as it was unexpected. 102 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:49,000 There was a principal bright silver object of indeterminate shape, almost as if it couldn't draw it. 103 00:16:49,000 --> 00:17:00,000 It was, and it was accompanied to the left by a cluster of what appeared to be minute stars of different degrees of brightness, or the astronomer said magnitude. 104 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:15,000 The components numbered from, oh, I should think, 15 to 20, although it was very difficult to estimate the precise number, because the members of the cluster were constantly changing their positions independently of one another. 105 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000 The whole scene gave the impression of being one of great activity. 106 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,000 It was utterly unlike anything that I'd previously observed in the heavens. 107 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,000 My wife confirmed the appearance in the 12-inch. 108 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Well, clouds again intervened for a short time, and when these cleared, another surprise was in store. 109 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:42,000 For now, there were two bright objects close together, and the cluster of small objects had completely disappeared. 110 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,000 Were they still in the vicinity, but out of the field of view? 111 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Well, I couldn't say, and I couldn't waste precious moments sweeping for them. 112 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:58,000 My attention was riveted on the two bright objects, which showed quite sensible motion in the field. 113 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:15,000 They were gradually separating, and not only appeared to be gyrating and flashing, but they also exhibited a slow, pendulum movement about each other in a manner rather suggested in the bouncing part of it, the truly standing side. 114 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:26,000 One of the members was decreasing in brightness, and probably both were, because they were now lost to the view of my wife, who still had the binoculars trained. 115 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:34,000 The increased movements of the object made following in the limited field of the 12-inch more difficult, and they passed out of the field, 116 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:40,000 and an adjustment had to be made in declination to the reflector. 117 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:51,000 Continued sweeping of the region failed to recover, and clouds finally brought observations to a close at 9.55 p.m. British summertime. 118 00:18:51,000 --> 00:19:00,000 The impression given was that the phenomenon was at a tremendous height, probably in the upper reaches of the stratosphere, or even beyond, 119 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:08,000 because the small star-like objects of the cluster that show no sensible size even with a power of 50. 120 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000 After the two principal members, these simply defied description. 121 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:20,000 They flashed, they gyrated, as though metallic surfaces were reflecting the rays of the sun. 122 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:31,000 Probably the closest analogy to what was seen is to be found in the flashing of the facets of the diamond, as it is termed in strong light. 123 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:41,000 I have been an amateur astronomer for, well, 21 years now, and I've been a member of the British Astronomical Association for 12, 124 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:52,000 and I think I can say it to know my way about the sky, and I am convinced that this phenomenon was certainly not of astronomical origin. 125 00:19:52,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Well, I must admit at the outset that had I not already been acquainted with flying saucer literature, having read the letter that Adam Ski flying saucers had landed, 126 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:15,000 and both British and American publications on the subject, I would have found it extremely difficult to offer a satisfactory interpretation of what was seen through the telescope. 127 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:22,000 And indeed, it was only much later that same night, or rather I ought to say in the early hours of the morning, 128 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:29,000 for I couldn't sleep with excitement that possible, and I think probably explanation occurred to me. 129 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:37,000 What I couldn't understand at first was why the principal silvery object, the single silvery object I first saw, 130 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:44,000 appeared to have become two in the later stages of my 25 minutes observation. 131 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:54,000 And I believe now that what I first saw was perhaps a cylindrical or cigar shaped object, viewed end on. 132 00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:00,000 Then the later stages, the object had turned sideways so that I could see both ends, 133 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,000 and they were out and illuminated, or reflecting the light of the setting sun, 134 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,000 so giving the impression it was two separate objects. 135 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,000 And this would also count for the pendulum movement around one another, 136 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,000 at the body rotating around its longitudinal axis. 137 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,000 Well, on this theory, what are the cluster of the tendon bodies which were later to disappear? 138 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Well, I offer the tentative explanation that these may possibly have been the so-called scalp craft, 139 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,000 having perhaps a rendezvous with another ship. 140 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Well, in spite of much publicity being given locally to this sighting, 141 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:47,000 it was most unfortunate that it doesn't appear to have been observed, at least knowingly, by anyone else in Britain. 142 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000 At least no confirmatory reports were received. 143 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,000 A reliable estimate of the object's apparent altitude, 144 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:01,000 and as in from another observer say 15 or 20 miles distance, 145 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,000 would have enabled us to form some idea of the true height of the pendulum, 146 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,000 and also its true size, palatation. 147 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:17,000 This has been a presentation of the Cape Ray Cartered UFO Information Service, 148 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,000 a non-profit organization, and Dr. H. E. Dickmar, 149 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,000 and General Coordinator, H. M. Henderson, Technical Director.